July 10, 2010

Agenda: Noe Valley Town Square Community Visioning Meeting

A reminder that there is an informational meeting this Thursday about the proposal to turn the parking lot hosting the farmer's market into permanent open space. Up to an hour will be dedicated to "community brainstorming." This meeting is sponsored by Friends of Noe Valley and facilitated by Meredith Thomas of the Neighborhood Parks Council. Here's the agenda forwarded to us by organizer Todd David (click the image to view):

What: Noe Valley Town Square Community Visioning Meeting
When: Thursday, July 15th, 6:30PM
Where: St. Philip's Church, 725 Diamond St.

[Agenda: Noe Valley Town Square Community Visioning Meeting - Google docs version]
[NVSF: Farmer's Market Parking Lot Edges Closer To Town Square Status]


Anonymous said...

not too cool that I have to sign up for a google account in order to get a copy of the agenda! Privacy invasions whenever possible for Google and this blog.

Noe Valley, SF said...

Ah - we didn't realize registration was required. Post updated to include the agenda (click image to view). Google docs version is still the footer link.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully, the tea baggers won't show up for this event.

Anonymous said...

I'm counting on them being there. I'll be selling popcorn at the door.

rocky's dad said...

This is pretty exciting just to have a meeting to begin the discussion process.

This property has enormous potential to become a permanent Noe Valley Town Square. It's a very large site, great sunny location, central to the shopping street...and it doesn't close off any streets. Think of the potential:

Farmer's market on Saturdays.

Open, grassy areas to sit on. Trees, benches, kids play area.

Awesome, just awesome.

Now the work begins.

Anonymous said...

This site takes out too much parking, in an already parking stressed neighborhood.

Grassy areas - AND a Farmer's Market? Are you crazy? Moving the stands and produce into a Farmer's Market will destroy grass. If a couple of dogs can destroy the grass at Noe Courts every month, what will produce trucks do? In order to have a Farmer's Market you need a hard flat surface. And you definitely cannot maneuver said things around benches or trees.

And if you put trees in, all you are doing is putting a place for homeless people to hide behind when they sleep at night. Who in their right mind would take their kids back into a snake pit like this.

This is a PARKING LOT and we need PARKING. And we need the Farmer's Market which is very popular and a park here would be bad for that.

rocky's dad said...

@anon: Sorry, but this has great potential, as I described.

There are many ways to provide a hard, sustainable surface for use during the Farmers market..and provide natural rain water run off. And vehicles can drive on these new permeable surfaces as well. Typically, grass or other landscape ground cover is planted in between paving blocks.

As an architect, I have designed similar projects and am aware of many appropriate materials that could be used to make this a great space for a market, people, dogs, kids..for all of NV. You need to think more open minded.

As for parking, we have already heard reports that the Noe Valley Ministry is losing money on this lot. Most days it is not full, so I don't feel parking is a valid issue.

Anonymous said...

I think anon @1:13pm thinks that we need to have more open space that's FREE for cars, not free for people.

Same sentiment that Rocky's Dad/noearch has expressed countless times before actually.

rocky's dad said...

sorry anon@1:59..or is it murph this time? sounds like it to me.

But, seriously, your logic escapes me with your latest comment. Not following your train of thought at all.

This project, over the long term, has great potential for a permanent public space. It's going to take money, it won't be free..but could be well worth it.

I support it.

You're starting to sound like the party of no, when it comes to this location.

murphstahoe said...


I don't think this park locale is of enormous value but it's better than what is there now. I wouldn't do or say anything to disrupt private money ponying up to do it. As such there is no point in dragging this argument into the mud - pointing out the flaws in the plan could only derail it and that's not useful.

Unless we start counting up huge amounts of *city* dollars that Tom Abbott believes are completely fungible, in which case I expect Tom to get up there and protest the 200 Rec and Parks workers that could be rehired for that $$$. There are Eucalyptus trees to be trimmed - I don't want to die walking my dog.

Anonymous said...

This place used to be a Shell station. Were the tanks removed?

rocky's dad said...

Here are a few points about why this parking lot has enormous VALUE in becoming a permanent public plaza:

1. No street closure would ever have to take place to make it into a plaza! No disruption to traffic.

2. Very flat site with no tall buildings on either side to increase shading. Great south facing exposure.

3. Already proven to be a great gathering place when the Farmer's Market convenes every Saturday. Geographic "centrality" is not critical nor important to its' success.

A combination of public and private monies could be raised for this development. Do we really need to rehire 200 Park and Rec workers? If we recall, some of them were caught sleeping on the job..Hmmm..good use of public funds.

So, don't walk near the Eucalyptus trees.

murphstahoe said...

When the Farmer's market is going - this location IS the center of the neighborhood. The other 160+ hours of the week, it is not.

That does not preclude this park from somehow becoming an attraction that shifts the center! Perhaps this will go in, and the Tuggey's location becomes too valuable to be a hardware store and Tuggey's goes away. Who knows? Maybe Sue Bowie's new office will go back to retail because the park-centric location makes it too valuable.

I'll put energy into getting the money fairy to appear IFF we can focus this discussion on this project, because there is a good net positive merit to this project in isolation. If an argument starts about which project has more merit, we will look like a bunch of jerks, and the city will tire of all of us. If we work together on this one - irrespective of the Noe Street locale - the higher likelihood we get the $$$

rocky's dad said...

Ah.......ok..... That's what I've been saying all along. This location has GREAT potential. Lots of work ahead? of course. Gonna cost $$..? you bet.

But seriously? Tuggeys becomes too valuable to be a hardware store? Sue Bowies office reverts back to retail? What the hell does that have to do with any of this discussion. Sometimes you are indeed way off base.

Of course there are HUGE benefits to this location vs. the Noe St. closure. That has to be one of the components of discussion, like it or not. In my opinion, the parking lot has much more merit, in many ways, as I have suggested.

I will continue to do my part to promote this location and continue to do my part to oppose the street closure, but keep me out of your "looking like a bunch of jerks" club. Not gonna join.

Anonymous said...

"Keep me out of your 'looking like a bunch of jerks' club. Not gonna join."

Too funny!

Anonymous said...

From the Noe Valley Newsletter.

"Todd David and Chris Keene from Friends of Noe Valley Town Square will
provide an update as to the ownership status, potential sale of the parking
lot and what this means for the Farmers Market. Meredith Thomas, Executive
Director of the Neighborhood Parks Council, will moderate.

After presentation there will be a Q&A. Following the Q&A, we will break
into small groups of 10 to discuss the community's vision for the space."

One comment here. And that is, I feel what everyone is really upset about, really is that you're talking, but is there going to be an opportunity for the other side to use the microphone and address the group as well. I'm saying, to be calm here, and you finish your presentation and the mike could go to someone who could give a presentation on behalf of the other side.

Anonymous said...

There are no "sides." This is ridiculous. Just like the Noe Valley Plaza meeting, where the opponents wanted to have their "side" heard. The Planning Dept was just presenting facts and opening space for a discussion.

If you want to give a presentation for your "side," like some kind of deranged ping pong game, feel free to organize your own forum.

Anonymous said...

Given that I quoted the woman in the NV Plaza Meeting verbatim, you can probably assume I was being sarcastic.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, you'll have to pardon me. It's hard to tell around here these days.