tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post3048365681387251014..comments2024-02-03T06:01:53.090-08:00Comments on Noe Valley SF: Noe Valley Plaza: Agenda And Fact Sheet For Community MeetingNoe Valley, SFhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09996607013124379881noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-46909897636320170462010-06-29T13:49:22.173-07:002010-06-29T13:49:22.173-07:00Tom you are right, the visual appearance subject h...Tom you are right, the visual appearance subject has already been raised and so have many comments on this blog either for or against. I do pass by the Castro Plaza all the time and we agree to disagree on it's appearance. <br /><br />The proposed Noe Plaza will, in my opinion, set a dangerous P2P precedent of closing a street which to me will look ridiculous not to mention aggravate many people including the vocally against residents on Noe.Chimingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-65069489819435918812010-06-29T13:13:05.068-07:002010-06-29T13:13:05.068-07:00Top notch design team? really? where?
Doesn't...Top notch design team? really? where?<br /><br />Doesn't matter if they are top notch or not, all they have to work with on this stupid trial plaza idea, if it ever happens, is a bunch of leftover junk and tree trunks from Golden Gate Park.suzeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-53212080386151663432010-06-29T12:27:50.014-07:002010-06-29T12:27:50.014-07:00C'mon Chiming the topic of visual appearance h...C'mon Chiming the topic of visual appearance has been exhausted before on this blokg. The trial version may not look the best since its designed to be temporary, but there is a top-notch design team for the trial so I have confidence even the trial plaza will look good. We're not going to get Guerrero Park at Noe.<br /><br />And if it becomes permanent then it is rebuilt anew. And if the trial is unsuccessful then its removed. Have you seen the Castro Plaza? I think it looks really good, and they have a very creative solution to installing moveable planters over the spur tracks.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-9928897300873186652010-06-29T12:01:17.193-07:002010-06-29T12:01:17.193-07:00Yes, that Guerrero park is pretty ugly..
and rare...Yes, that Guerrero park is pretty ugly..<br /><br />and rarely is it used by anyone. too windy there, and the traffic so close by is scary.<br /><br />another waste of money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-17077131183724293342010-06-29T10:21:10.359-07:002010-06-29T10:21:10.359-07:00Tons of debate on this thread about traffic. Traf...Tons of debate on this thread about traffic. Traffic data is of course interesting to look at but I just don't want an eye sore in our neighborhood. <br /><br />Look at Castro and Guerrero Park locations and reconsider if you would like to roll the dice for a repeat in Noe. I DO NOT and an elevated budget is not going to make it much better. Please, please keep the cheap tables, chairs and painted planters away.Chimingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-81537604713629091982010-06-28T18:59:24.142-07:002010-06-28T18:59:24.142-07:00Well, ok. It's hard to understand murphes cont...Well, ok. It's hard to understand murphes contorted, long winded, non sensical sentences, but I suppose he has a right to speak here.<br /><br />Say murph! you might want to go back and read some excellent and intelligent commentary by a fellow cyclist, Susoyev: he makes some very valid points about the increased traffic to Jersey and Elizabeth, just as the survey points out in clear numbers.<br /><br />He also talks about how the street closure will NOT make street any safer for cyclists..good point, he's right.<br /><br />He also points out how we could be spending our money and our planning depts. time on much more important issues and helping less fortunate neighborhoods. He's right, and of course I agree with him, as many others do as well.<br /><br />But murph! seriously, dude. you are inflaming issues when you suggest that drivers go 55mph down Noe st. and/or roll thru stop signs. Seriously? show me your data! <br /><br />And we won't even talk about all the bike nuts who sail thru every stop sign and stop light almost everywhere in SF..ignoring laws and endangering the public. Let's not go there.<br /><br />Might bring up some self centered issues that you are deathly afraid to admit.<br /><br />No, let's not go there.rocky's dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629117858374059974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-24060534020554708922010-06-28T18:01:26.691-07:002010-06-28T18:01:26.691-07:00I told Andres and Bevan in person, and reiterated ...I told Andres and Bevan in person, and reiterated in email, my belief that this was not about congestion on Jersey. That the opponents are deathly afraid there will be no traffic impact for several self-centered reasons that they are too clever to admit.<br /><br />Among them - the lack of a bus, pedestrians waiting for buses, and wide sight lines allow drivers to shoot down Noe Street at 55 MPH and give passing notice to stop signs as they roll them. One doesn't have to spend much time a block up from Noe for this to be clear. But nobody would be admit that they just like to drop the lead foot in a residential area. <br /><br />Nobody that is but rocky's dad.<br /><br />The problem is less acute South of 24th because the 24 bus is on Noe until 26th, and from 26th to 24th there are more pedestrians. This correlates with the fact the Jersey residents who see slower traffic speeds where they walk and want to drive 50 MPH from Elizabeth to Liberty have signs in their windows, and the people on Elizabeth and 23rd who have to deal with the speeders have signed our petition.murphstahoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17378354136823393492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-45132073192503113802010-06-28T17:34:54.835-07:002010-06-28T17:34:54.835-07:00I'm sorry but I don't read anywhere in the...I'm sorry but I don't read anywhere in the traffic studies that Noe is not a major street. What the studies do show is how the traffic would increase on the side streets should Noe St. be closed at 24th. That's what the stats show.<br /><br />Drivers who are forced to circumvent Noe st. at 24th if a plaza were to block the street could, with great inconvenience take Castro St. heading north. Ever get behind the 24 bus going north on Castro? Can be quite a nightmare, with the bus slowly crawling up the hill to The Castro..or parts north. Does that solve increased traffic? Not at all.<br /><br />Many of us conclude that closing an important street such as Noe Street to create a plaza is simply the wrong solution, when there are many alternatives to such a poorly developed idea.<br /><br />Go back and read the previous comments and you'll find similar conclusions.rocky's dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629117858374059974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-76069072538488763702010-06-28T16:43:23.180-07:002010-06-28T16:43:23.180-07:00Rocky's Dad, you've argued in the past aga...Rocky's Dad, you've argued in the past against the Noe closure because Noe is an "important" or "major" thoroughfare. And now that the stats show Noe is really not a "major" street" that notion becomes irrelevant. Very convenient.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-20753650538375885432010-06-28T16:13:29.703-07:002010-06-28T16:13:29.703-07:00LOL. trust me. sometimes we all need guidance. You...LOL. trust me. sometimes we all need guidance. You sure did.rocky's dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629117858374059974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-46654756347968430182010-06-28T15:31:53.953-07:002010-06-28T15:31:53.953-07:00Thanks for the lesson on soul, Rocky's Dad.Thanks for the lesson on soul, Rocky's Dad.crnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-4420511932919510842010-06-28T15:02:14.691-07:002010-06-28T15:02:14.691-07:00@cr:..ok, so you're clever with words. I don&#...@cr:..ok, so you're clever with words. I don't buy it.<br /><br />You're making some pretty broad assumptions here. So a plaza..I mean STREET CLOSURE will bring more people,more neighbors, more food, more drink, more vitamin D (huh?)more fun (huh, again?"..<br /><br />You know all this for a fact? or you're just hoping for these things? So, let me get this right: right now we have fewer people, fewer neighbors, less amounts of food and drink, and ah..yea, don't forget this one..LESS fun? <br /><br />A you serious??????? I would submit that what you WANT is more of all this, cause you don't or can't find it now..Guess what, it already exists and is thriving quite well thank you in Noe Valley and many other great neighborhoods in SF. If you can't find it, you need to look hard inside yourself for the answer.<br /><br />All we will really get from this STREET CLOSURE is MORE TRAFFIC on smaller streets, more congestion on 24th.<br /><br />And more disingenuous ideas from the Planning Dept.rocky's dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629117858374059974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-15379515833259875922010-06-28T14:44:44.325-07:002010-06-28T14:44:44.325-07:00"The fact that CR or others would want to bri..."The fact that CR or others would want to bring more "soul" to Noe Valley, whatever the hell soul means...is really offensive, undefined, and arrogant."<br /><br />Thank you Chris Daly....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-76328332265431356372010-06-28T14:40:36.670-07:002010-06-28T14:40:36.670-07:00You know what, Rocky's Dad, you're right. ...You know what, Rocky's Dad, you're right. I hate wishy-washy metaphors too. Shouldn't have used this one.<br /><br />Delete "soul" and replace with "more people on the streets, more neighbors who know each other, more food and drink shared, more Vitamin D, and more fun!" <br /><br />Sorry to offend your sensibilities.<br /><br />Read the fact sheet again. Overall traffic in the neighborhood will DECREASE, because some drivers will choose alternate routes outside the neighborhood. Meanwhile, inside the neighborhood, some streets will see more traffic, some will see less, as those 4400 cars (a very small amount relative to most streets in the city) are redistributed on the local grid.crnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-9166463174791221982010-06-28T14:22:33.124-07:002010-06-28T14:22:33.124-07:00Oh one more thing. This really really irritates me...Oh one more thing. This really really irritates me:<br /><br />The fact that CR or others would want to bring more "soul" to Noe Valley, whatever the hell soul means...is really offensive, undefined, and arrogant. <br /><br />We don't need more "soul". We need cleaner streets, potholes filled, more trees planted, and safer streets.rocky's dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629117858374059974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-42477783345776877142010-06-28T14:19:46.071-07:002010-06-28T14:19:46.071-07:00I disagree completely with cr:
Whether Noe St. is...I disagree completely with cr:<br /><br />Whether Noe St. is defined as a major north south street or not is irrelevant. The traffic count figures tells the story. Those 440 cars have to diverted somehwhere and they will end up on Jersey and Elizabeth Streets due to having to travel around the CLOSURE OF NOE ST. for a plaza.<br /><br />Don't be fooled by the planning dept. A "trial" is a clever and disingenuous way to simply push the street closure on the public without the proper permitting and full hearings, perhaps even an EIR.<br /><br />I would like to see our Supervisor Dufty, for once, take a firm stand on whether he supports the street closure or not. He needs to stop worrying about collecting votes if he should run for Mayor.<br /><br />I will continue to fully oppose the NOE STREET CLOSURE in any form. There are many alternates to this poorly conceived idea that remain on the table.rocky's dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629117858374059974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-30013782481171057212010-06-28T13:36:05.391-07:002010-06-28T13:36:05.391-07:00The previous comment @1:35, was from me, cr.The previous comment @1:35, was from me, cr.crnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-19890534161641780782010-06-28T13:35:00.869-07:002010-06-28T13:35:00.869-07:00I'm looking forward to the community meeting o...I'm looking forward to the community meeting on Wednesday.<br /><br />One thing I haven't seen discussed is the fact that there are 4400 cars on Noe St. and 3900 cars on Sanchez St. This disproves the point, repeated here and elsewhere, that Noe is a major thoroughfare. It is an average street in the local grid, carrying a relatively low volume of traffic, just like Sanchez (and less than the real north-south arterials: Castro, Church, Dolores, and Guerrero.)<br /><br />We can close this street to traffic with relatively low impact. As Planning says, "We expect that residents would notice an increase in traffic volumes, but that <b>the total volumes would remain relatively low and consistent with volumes typical of local streets</b>."<br /><br />In exchange for this, we get a rare chance to try out an innovative new public space that will bring more life to the streets and put some more soul into the neighborhood. (Notice I said "more"; don't get offended.)<br /><br />We asked for traffic stats. They gave us traffic stats. Are we really now going to raise a ruckus about traffic impacts that are "relatively low and consistent with volumes typical of local streets"?<br /><br />I'm glad we have these baseline traffic stats, so that we can have a true trial to see the before and after numbers. Contrary to the concerns of Noe Valley Resident above, there are indeed protections in place to ensure that residents' voices are heard throughout the process. Why do you think we're having these meetings? There are many steps that a trial would have to go through in order to become permanent, and it won't become permanent unless a large majority of the neighborhood supports it.<br /><br />p.s. For the record, RD, I've lived my entire adult life in urban neighborhoods. (Noe Valley is actually the least urban of them.) I live here, as I've lived in other urban neighborhoods, because I value public space and democratized streets that serve all citizens. That's what I support the plaza trial.<br /><br />YES petition here: <a href="http://www.noevalleyplaza.com" rel="nofollow">www.noevalleyplaza.com</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-6957365369564869832010-06-28T08:55:01.613-07:002010-06-28T08:55:01.613-07:00Watch out it is a Planning Department conspiracy!!...Watch out it is a Planning Department conspiracy!! They are power hungry, and they want to take over to exert control over the peons of Noe Valley. This is all part of their master plan to take away our cars and driveways and make walking, biking, and MUNI the only legal modes of transport.<br /><br />This is in no way an attempt at improving the neighborhood and city. It is an attempt to turn Noe into a suburb. Because everything in the suburbs is horrible and cities are not like suburbs at all - they are complete opposites in fact.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-15082127951848571712010-06-27T22:42:28.827-07:002010-06-27T22:42:28.827-07:00heres a reality check...
a "trial" is a ...<b> heres a reality check...<br />a "trial" is a very devious way of putting this awful project in . that way they dont have to go through all the permits etc. Its a very clever and sneaky ploy to fool the people, so they dont have to go through the process fully.<br />That way they can bypass any input from the residents who want more of a study.<br /> The public doesn’t know that ..<br />caution here people!!!!!<br />The planning department is NOT your friend. beware!!!!! im VERY disappointed that our supervisor has not taken the helm in this debacle. Its gonna cost him a LOT of votes if he runs for mayor. the people who live here WONT forget his lack of commitment. </b>noe valley residentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-20203541147329798472010-06-27T11:02:02.387-07:002010-06-27T11:02:02.387-07:00I like the fact other options are being considered...I like the fact other options are being considered but I, like RD, will be opposed to ANY street closure. I don't think the residents on Vicksburg, Sanchez, etc will be any more excited about the idea and I can see those "against" signs going up if such a proposal goes forward. This would just drag on. <br /><br />I live on Sanchez Street and wasn't surprised it's the second busiest street in the area noted on the study. My opinion is that's because of the residents coming from Glen Park to go north for whatever reason and Sanchez and Church Streets are the most convenient thoroughfares.<br /><br />A trial means "YES" despite many posts to the contrary that a temporary plaza would be easy to remove. I hope we can make decision without a trial.Chimingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-54320435191662850692010-06-26T15:06:45.133-07:002010-06-26T15:06:45.133-07:00Is there a difference?Is there a difference?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-86758222817004643252010-06-26T14:52:08.062-07:002010-06-26T14:52:08.062-07:00Wait, I thought you were blaming it all on hipster...Wait, I thought you were blaming it all on hipsters. Suburban mallrats or hipsters, which is it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-67393640970852630182010-06-26T12:51:59.459-07:002010-06-26T12:51:59.459-07:00Thank you all for the above comments. Very well sa...Thank you all for the above comments. Very well said. Finally, we are getting some clear answers to the major problems that we would encounter should Noe St. ever be blocked. We can all see now that it is a bad idea, even from a cyclists point of view.<br /><br />And yes, the City has many more pressing needs and other less fortunate neighborhoods to spend money on. Think about the waste of money and energy our planning dept. has spent so far on this poorly thought out issue. Shame on them.<br /><br />I have been against the street closure and ANY kind of plaza from day one. Many people have criticized me strongly and simply tried to say I was closed minded. Never farther from the truth. I remain committed to keeping the street opening, and looking at alternate locations (such as the Farmers Market site) for a more permanent long term plaza idea.<br /><br />Those who started this whole push for the plaza, many of whom are new to Noe Valley from the suburbs: You know who you are; should carefully rethink their focus on what makes a great city; It's simply not just bringing your suburban mall thinking to a dense urban neighborhood. <br /><br />I look forward to seeing this resolved and moving on to more important issues, like fixing poor streets, more trees and cleaner sidewalks, just to name a few. Thank you.rocky's dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629117858374059974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6008050911800805999.post-68597961868352300362010-06-26T10:15:39.786-07:002010-06-26T10:15:39.786-07:00Oh, man. This is what happens when you give people...Oh, man. This is what happens when you give people facts but don't give them the context to understand those facts. I hope SF Planning does a better job at the meeting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com